NATO, the organisation that provides many European states with safety umbrella, is frequently portrayed in Austria as if it were North Korea or part of an “axis of evil,” Dietmar Pichler, Founder and president of the Disinfo Resilience Network Vienna, told EURACTIV.pl’s fact Talks podcast.
IN BRIEF: Disinformation in Austria
- Dominant narratives: pro-Russian or otherwise related to the war in Ukraine, anti-EU, anti-NATO, health-related, technology-related
- Main disinformation spreaders: Russia (through troll farms and online mercenaries), “agents of influence”
- Most common fake news: NATO being guilty of the war in Ukraine, both sides of the conflict being equally liable for the bloodshed there, Russia defending its nationals in Ukraine, the Russian language being prohibited in Ukraine, the US sponsoring Ukrainian Maidan
- Combating disinformation: governmental task forces, investing in disinformation-countering on various levels
In this episode, we delve into the Austrian disinformation scenery with Dietmar Pichler, Founder and president of the Disinfo Resilience Network Vienna; freelance advisor and analyst specialising in abroad interference, propaganda and subversion.
Karolina Zbytniewska, EURACTIV.pl: Austria is simply a country with a strong tradition of political neutrality and advanced media consumption. But even here, disinformation finds its way into public debate. What are the dominant disinformation narratives circulating in Austria?
Dietmar Pichler: There are so many, I don’t know where to start. But I think the elephant in the area at the minute is the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation. Since 2014, that was the beginning of the Russian aggression against Ukraine. What we saw back then was that, unfortunately, Austrian politics and Austrian society were very hesitant to accept the reality.
When I say that neutrality makes us more susceptible to disinformation or Russian narratives, I mean that any people believe neutrality means a kind of neutrality towards reality. So we end up with a kind of alternate reality shaped by our neutrality. This opens the door to both-sidism and false balance debates — which we see a lot.
Then we have all these narratives against NATO — that NATO is liable for Russian aggression. This applies to Georgia, Ukraine, and besides to hybrid warfare. We frequently excuse everything by claiming that Russia felt threatened by NATO. That’s a very dangerous narrative.
And then there’s the full collection of fakes. For example, the claim that the Americans paid $5 billion for the Euromaidan revolution. This is something you can hear repeatedly since 2014. And what worries me most is that it’s not just on social media or in the digital sphere.
In the digital sphere, the same patterns appear everywhere, with insignificant adaptations. But in Austria, we besides find this in universities. We have many NGOs promoting these ideas. There’s besides the peace movement from the 1980s, which fundamentally promotes a communicative that both sides are to blame—or even that the West is more at fault, and Moscow is only defending itself.
These are old tales. If you look at history, you see precisely the same things happening now. It’s almost ridiculous. Watch any documentary about the 1980s and russian influence in the German-speaking world, and you’ll see the same dynamics—except for social media, which is the only fresh element.
What you’re describing—I’ve noticed that. For example, I’ve heard claims that Poland, through our opposition to what Putin is doing in Ukraine, is collectively endangering Europe and its peace. So to me, it does sound like Austria plays the function of the alleged peace camp of Europe. Of course, there are besides rational arguments for this stance. But why do you think Austria is the dominant country or community in this peace camp?
First of all, I want to say that we have a fresh government now, and besides the erstwhile 1 was not pro-Russian—at least, not anymore. We had pro-Russian governments before 2019 and after the annexation of Crimea. „Pro-Russian” is simply a word that needs to be defined, but I would describe it as appeasement—there were very friendly relations with the Kremlin.
Now we have a government that, in my opinion, has a clear position—by Austrian standards, of course. But the problem is that we inactive request to explain to the population why we have this position, why we support European integration of Ukraine, and why we support a European defence policy and a united abroad policy. This kind of public communication hasn’t happened enough. We request to combat these narratives that have persisted for decades.
When we talk about countries like Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, and Georgia—these people have a unique historical experience. It’s truly a shame erstwhile we blame them. This is victim-blaming, which we see repeatedly—suggesting, for example, that they’re „hysterical” due to their history.
But I always say: no, they are not hysterical. They know their history. They know what it means to be a neighbour of Russia. They have the skills, the information, and the awareness on this subject that we lack. So the problem is not with them. The problem is with us—because we neglect to understand, or we refuse to understand, what Russian policy is about. That’s the biggest issue.
For decades, we’ve viewed the region through a „Russian lens”—in Germany and many another countries. The full past of these countries, which were occupied and suppressed by Moscow—this past of Russian imperialism—is missing from our schoolbooks. And addressing that, I think, is more crucial than just debunking regular fakes on social media.
Who do you think is to blame for this Russia-first attitude, and the deficiency of knowing toward countries that take a more hawkish stance on Moscow?
I think it’s a mix. First of all, we have economical relations and economical interests. erstwhile people prosecute a policy like selling something to Russia or buying gas, they frequently excuse it by parroting Russian narratives. If you do something wrong, even if you know it’s not okay, you look for excuses.
Then, of course, we have the far right, which in almost all Western European countries is very Moscow-friendly and EU-skeptical—which simply means anti-European Union integration.
And then there’s the far left, the peace movement, and peace research—which, in my opinion, is questionable as a real science. These movements always effort to appease and search negotiated solutions, but they ignore the actual nature of Russian imperialism.If you perceive to Russian state media or Russian officials, it’s always about regaining control over erstwhile territories.
The peace movement has ignored this for a long time. If you look back to the early 1980s, erstwhile it was about the Pershing II missiles and deterrence against the russian Union, you’ll see that the same people who protested against NATO in the late ’70s and early ’80s are now protesting against military aid to Ukraine.
These people were very young back then. Now they are older—some are even influential. We know that especially in Germany, these movements were infiltrated and orchestrated to any degree by the KGB and another east Bloc intelligence services.
What we request now is to build resilience and have a more honest discourse—one that acknowledges that these movements were not entirely genuine. At least, not 100%.
I have analysed Austrian opinion polls and noticed that the Freedom organization (FPÖ) has been leading in the polls for over 2 and a half years. And actually, their lead has been highly high—around 14 percent points—for more than half a year. How do you think the success of the far right aligns with this pro-peace attitude?
Yeah, well, it’s difficult. If you compare it to the Cold War, the far right being part of the peace movement is something new. What’s besides fresh is that the far right has become specified a immense movement. They have advanced support, not only in polls but besides in elections.
We see akin trends in Germany. In any cases, far-right activists even rally together with old communists. They ignore home policy and say, „We have 1 common goal: peace with Russia,” as they call it. That’s rather crucial and shouldn’t be ignored. The discourse in the Western planet is heavy influenced by Russia.
Of course, this happens mainly through social media and the digital sphere, where manipulation is easy and cost-efficient. This favours far-right politics due to the anti-EU stance, distorted views of conventional values, fake news—far-right groups in Western Europe respond to it and deliver these narratives to their voters. Russian propaganda helps them a lot.
There are besides any obscure far-left parties across Europe that benefit from these developments and from Russian influence. In Austria, the far left isn’t very strong—the communists aren’t in parliament, and they’re little extremist than in any another countries. But there are inactive many members with russian nostalgia.
I personally consider everything that is subtly pro-Russian even more dangerous, due to the fact that it infiltrates the center of society. We know what the far right believes and what their policies are. But unfortunately, there are others besides who fall for Russian narratives. And that makes it even more dangerous—because then who’s left to correct the mistakes, to carry out sound policy?
Let’s return to my first question—about the major disinformation narratives circulating in Austria. You mentioned the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Could you point to another crucial narratives?
Yes, of course. too the full-scale invasion, there’s inactive a distorted view of what happened in 2014. Many inactive describe it as an interior conflict, an cultural conflict, or even a civilian war. any people proceed to deny Russian engagement in 2014. There are besides fakes about MH17, although that’s 1 case where things have improved, thanks to thorough investigations. It no longer looks good for conspiracy theorists.
Then there’s anti-EU sentiment—the thought that the EU is to blame. There’s besides victim-blaming of Ukraine, with the communicative that Ukrainians attacked the Russian population in Ukraine, which is absurd and makes no sense, especially considering that there were people with Russian heritage in Ukraine’s government in 2014 and 2015. But specified facts are ignored.
There’s besides the persistent story that the Russian language is banned in Ukraine, which is clearly untrue. I’ve frequently been interviewed by Ukrainian media and published in Russian. But it’s very hard to get these falsehoods out of people’s heads due to the fact that there has never been a appropriate run to inform the public—no awareness efforts at all.
It’s akin to the pandemic. There are inactive many fake narratives circulating. I don’t see myself as being in a pole position to rise awareness, due to the fact that so many others already talk about it. But conspiracy theorists inactive believe in head control through the vaccine.
They inactive believe in the microchip. I remember clearly—in 2022, these people were rallying against COVID-19 measures, and after the full-scale invasion, abruptly they were waving Russian flags. So this conspiracy explanation scene is very open to pro-Russian views as well.
At least with the pandemic, we had quite a few experts—doctors, pharmacists—who spoke up. You knew where to get reliable information, even though there were any doctors among the conspiracy theorists too.
But erstwhile it comes to geopolitics, it’s different. Everyone feels entitled to speak, and we treat all views as equally valid. In political discipline and at universities, there’s quite a few distorted past erstwhile it comes to the russian past, the east Bloc, and the suffering of the people. It’s not something that’s taught in depth, and that’s a problem—especially for the countries that suffered for so long and now request justice for Russian crimes.
Let’s now turn to who’s behind all this—not just the disinformation itself, but besides the spreading of it. Sometimes fringe narratives start at the grassroots and are then amplified by malign actors. How does this look in Austria?
Austria has a very circumstantial situation. We share an information environment with Germany, which is the main mark of Russian influence in the EU. What German audiences see, we frequently see too—we watch the same tv channels, and on social media, everything gets mixed up due to the common language. Sometimes you can’t even tell if you’re speaking to a German or Austrian.
When Russians mark us—whether through troll farms or online mercenaries—they focus on topics, not locations. If individual talks about Russia or Ukraine, they attack, regardless of whether the individual is in Vienna, Berlin, or Munich. That’s crucial to understand. Austrians sometimes say, „We’re not the main target—we’re besides small.” But that doesn’t matter. We inactive get hit.
What truly worries me is that we have enablers—friends of Russian propaganda. I’d call them „agents of influence,” to usage a Cold War term. And they inactive exist. any of these agents are leftovers from the Cold War, reactivated today. I’m not saying they’re all paid, but any clearly hold strong ideological views.
We besides have people in academia with anti-Western sentiments—not just students, but besides faculty. And any are active in the media, NGOs, or civilian society. There are many alleged neutrality initiatives that advance peace with Russia and disarmament. But erstwhile you look closer, you find the same Russian narratives.
These peace activists can be very dangerous, to be honest. And then there’s the far right—they advance conspiracy theories through obscure French media websites, with everything from COVID-19 denial to antisemitism, anti-EU sentiment, and pro-Russian narratives. They’ve gained quite a few reach.
We don’t know who funds them, but we do know that Russian trolls and online profiles manipulate algorithms. They push content—and in advertising, scope is everything. You don’t request to give individual money if you amplify their campaigns. We saw this during the U.S. elections—reach is equal to cash.
Do you think there’s anything that makes the Austrian disinformation scenery unique or distinct from, say, the German 1 or those of another European countries?
To answer this question properly, I request to go back to the start of our discussion. Austrian neutrality is what makes us uniquely susceptible to Russian influence. There’s this argument that we should be neutral towards the Russian invasion, that we shouldn’t side with Ukraine.
But this is complete nonsense. Austria is not politically neutral—we are militarily neutral. We’re not part of a military alliance, which, frankly, doesn’t substance as much anymore since we are an EU member.
We have besides accepted that we must support our allies if they are attacked. For instance, if something happens in the Baltic States, we gotta support them. But this is hard to explain to any Austrians who think Austria is neutral in all respects.
So erstwhile Russia attacks Ukraine, any people think we should just close our eyes and offer Vienna as a negotiation venue—nothing more. But even during the Cold War, that wasn’t the case. During the Cold War, we weren’t in the EU. Still, our military neutrality can be exploited to advance narratives and distort reality. That’s what makes us more susceptible than another countries.
Compared to Germany, we don’t have the GDR history. We don’t have the same number of people with communist nostalgia—at least not to that extent. That’s something we don’t share.
You most likely have different kinds of nostalgia.
Yes, if you’re referring to the deficiency of democratic experience, partially due to our past in planet War II—most people from that era are no longer alive.
But we besides have an additional problem. In 1938, erstwhile Austria was annexed, the opposition was practically nonexistent. We have all these images from that time, and they inactive live in our collective memory. I think that’s another issue we face.
We can’t rather grasp the thought that individual can legitimately defend themselves—that a war can be just. That you can fight for your freedom, not only to attack or oppress someone.
That thought isn’t truly present in our mindset anymore. We’re not bold, not brave. I don’t want to talk badly about my fellow Austrians—some of them might perceive to this—but erstwhile it comes to knowing the importance of defense, of fighting for freedom, we fall short.
I saw this during the Euromaidan. I was there. erstwhile I returned to Austria, I couldn’t believe the narratives I heard—people saying things like, “Why are they fighting? They should just go to Russia.” There’s this mindset of subjugation, of not fighting back.
This, of course, ties back to our planet War II past in many ways. But we should decision on. We shouldn’t let others endure for mistakes we made in the past. Saying things like, “Well, we attacked the russian Union, so now we must accept everything from them”—that logic is profoundly flawed.
Poland, for example, didn’t attack anyone. They were just defending themselves. We besides request to talk about 1939—the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, besides known as the Hitler-Stalin Pact. That past needs to be in the schoolbooks. We besides request to educate people about the fact that Austria, at times, sided with the russian Union against countries in east and Central Europe.
If we start doing that, I think it would make a immense difference—but it will take time to change how people think.
Let’s effort to end on a more affirmative note. What is being done to counter disinformation in Austria? And what more would you recommend?
I think we request to do a lot more. From what I know, there’s a task force in the ministry where people are communicating. 1 improvement I find important—though I don’t want to sound arrogant—is that I’ve noticed people are starting to perceive to me now. I can pass along the latest narratives and updates.
This wasn’t the case back in 2014. Back then, governments fundamentally said, “Please don’t distract us with facts. We like our fantasies,” especially erstwhile it comes to Russia and any another issues.
Now, we have a government—especially the abroad ministry—that holds a very clear position. I hope that continues. I besides hope they put real effort into explaining their position alternatively of trying to appease propagandists, whether they’re abroad or domestic. These actors are lobbying hard, trying to force the government or attack it.
For example, they call our abroad minister “NATO Beate” just due to the fact that she supports Ukraine and the EU. That’s a serious problem—the demonisation of NATO. It doesn’t substance whether Austria is simply a NATO associate or not. But this constant portrayal of NATO as if it were North Korea or the “axis of evil” is absurd. Most of our European partners trust on NATO’s safety umbrella, and they have good reasons for doing so.
Out of respect, we should halt utilizing specified rhetoric. And I hope all essential efforts are made. We request to invest crucial resources in countering abroad interference across all European countries. In Western Europe in particular, including Austria, we inactive tend to underestimate how serious a threat this is to our democracies.
You can learn more about the disinformation scenery in Austria here.
